The main issue about the film's message (The Italian) to that audience, was whether Beppo's madness was understandable temporary madness, or if it was a warning signal that if you scratch an Italian you will find a brute (like the Lombroso ape-like shoeshine of the cartoon.)
I know I have lobbied heavily to skew your perspective in the latter direction (maybe I am guilty of indoctrination).
Did I "force" my interpretation on you? Or did I do what I am supposed to do?
Do you think that everything is just a matter of opinion?
COMMENT
A thoughtful comment on ONE clear and precise issue. Don't try to answer all the points in the premise/prompt.
REPLY
An even more thoughtful reply to a CLEAR and LUCID comment.
When watching the Italian, I did not view Beppo's anger as "a warning signal that if you scratch an Italian you will find a brute." I thought his anger was justified, his child was dying and life had been unfair to him. I do think, though, that the way he was treated, by the police and the people around him, was definitely unfair. He was thrown into the street like an animal, no one should be treated that way.
ReplyDeleteI agree with mostly everything you said except the police part. The police was actually kind of correct. He was doing his job which was protecting citizens. He didn't know that the two men we're actually thieves. Beppo was lashing out at them and it did look like he was unreasonable. Even though Beppo had pretty much every right to be angry towards them.
DeleteI do agree that theway he was treated by the people around him was unfair. However, I don't think that the way he was treated by the police was necessarily unfair.This is because although the men did steal from him,he was also wrong for lashing out at them and going to the lengths to beat him up. Although, I do understand that in this situation he was probably upset and and desperate that he couldn't find food for his child and this resulted in the actions that he took.
DeleteI can understand that Beppo's anger is reasonable, but the director also made the point of making Beppo Italian which makes me think there was way more thought put into the way he was portrayed.
DeleteThe way the police treated him was wrong regardless, but is also unfortunately probably pretty accurate to the way Italian Americans were treated at the time.
I totally agree with you. I think that his anger was due to the fact that he was a parent rather than an Italian. Also the police treated him very inhumanely.
DeleteWhen I watched "The Italian", I felt his anger was quite reasonable. I don't think it should reflect upon Italians as a whole. It's basic human nature in my view. People were not treating Beppo very nicely, and when his baby was in pain and dying no one was lending a helping hand. Any father would do the same thing to get his child some medicine/food that they need to survive. When he heard about Corrigon's child I believe that this is also normal because he seek revenge but in the end couldn't carry through because he is still human and has a heart.
ReplyDeleteAnnie,
DeleteI agree with you that Beppos's behavior should not be the image for all Italians. Beppo behaved in this violent angry manner because of his desperate situation. It would be unfair to think all Italians behave this way. His anger his seen to lighten up when he does not have the heart to scare Corrigon's child. He is seen here as remorseful and feels sorrow. His change in character shows viewers that he is not all evil. The film highlights this scene and I think it is to justify that the Italian man was not always violent and angry. It is important to see Beppo as a whole and not only his tie of frustration.
When I was watching the film I didn't think that Beppo's anger was out of line. While I do think that his anger may have been a little over the top, I still think that it was justified because his child passed away due to the fact that no one wanted to help him. He expected others to help him when he needed the help not only with his child but also when he was being arrested andhe didn't recieve that help from the one person he believd would help him so he retaliated. I don't think that this is a direct representations of all Italians, I found this to be a reaction that any human being could have, if they were found in a similar situation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you regarding the level of anger that Beppo behaved. His anger was not "out of line" considering the circumstances that he was in. Nothing was going his way, he job wasn't flourishing and his child was approaching death, and as a result reacted to those aspects. Although, seeking revenge in terms of killing another child may have been a little extreme but in the moment it seemed like a good idea. As the viewers we are able to see other options that were available to seek revenge that did not include murder. His reactions were solely "in the moment" because he did not eventually kill the girl because she reminded him of his son, which shows that he does have a heart and is not attached to the anger that is connected to some Italians.
DeleteAmanda, I agree with you when you say that Beppo's anger was justified but maybe a little over the top. It's a good point to bring up his retaliation. I think his motives and the resulting actions he ended up taking, (or lack there of), show his humanity and compassion.
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ReplyDeleteIn "The Italian," Beppo's madness can be seen as a temporal madness. Italians are stereotyped for over reacting with violence and anger. However, I do not think Beppo’s madness was shown to create an image of this stereotype. Beppo was desperate and had to act in any way to save his child. His madness lasted only a period of time and then he was able to let go.
ReplyDeleteI do think the interpretation of the ape- like shoeshine can be seen as a connection, but I was not heavily influenced. My perspective was not skewed because I saw his anger out of being desperate. His anger changes when he almost uses his anger to make a loud noise that would kill the baby. He feels remorseful and sorrow, which is a different emotion than anger.
In addition, I think his anger is justifiable because he was not treated fairly. No one would help him when his baby was dying and he was treated like an animal. He was attacked by the police and was not able to defend himself like others. I think his anger stems from being hurt. Anger is a secondary feeling from being hurt, and I think Beppo acted on his emotions and his will power for his baby to recover. Overall, I do not feel as though I was not forced to see one side of interpretations because I am able to feel compassion and frustration for Beppo. He acted as any human would have in a situation of life and death.
I had the same thought process when evaluating his actions as well. His madness was not for a long period of the movie as you correctly stated and he did indeed receive no help from anyone as you mentioned. I feel people underplay the role of having no support when first coming to a country you are foreign to. I also do agree that this was not an attack on the Italian stereotype for the same reasons you mentioned, that he had a definitive reason for his anger or madness.
DeleteWhen I first watched the film, I did not think Beppo's actions were a result of which his ethnic background was to blame. In both "anger" cases I viewed Beppo as simply a concerned parent who was trying to do everything they can to help their baby; not an action done by his genetics. His child was sick and approaching death, which naturally causes an automatic instinct to do everything in his power to save him. Later on, he wanted to seek revenge on the only man who could help his child, which caused another temper instance. His "temporary madness" is understandable considering the circumstances that he was in and does not reflect the whole Italian population as a whole in terms of their behavior.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that Beppo was being a concerned parent who was doing everything he can do to help his child who is ill. Beppo had a strike of anger that made him want to do irrational things but because it was temporary it was understandable under the circumstances he was under.
DeleteI did not consider Beppo's behavior to be that of a parent under stress, which is an interesting perspective. He does seem to react more desperately after seeing his son's empty crib, so I can see the link between his parental instincts affecting his behavior.
DeleteWhen I watched The Italian I did not view Beppo’s madness as a warning signal because his child recently died and was trying to seek comfort in his child’s death. It is understandable for a person to act out when their child or a loved one dies because it is someone near and dear to them. His actions of wanting to kill to get revenge is not justified however, his trying to seek comfort is. He was treated unfairly by the justice system in America and he was furious on what happened to his child. The anger was building up inside of him.
ReplyDeleteI believe Beppo's role in The Italian, is meant to be seen as having a duel meaning. I believe that Beppo is a racist representation of Italian Americans disguised as being a positive representation.
ReplyDeleteFace value: it's easy to see Beppo as a good representation of Italian Americans. Looking deeper though you can see how Beppo represents that Italian Americans can be cruel when messed with.
After watching The Italian it is clear that Beppo was a character that was full of high emotions. It was evident as well that he acted off emotion throughout several scenes of the film. I believe many people in his position would've carried out a similar thought process because of pent up anger due to his sorrow of his sons death, but not anything regarding the "stereotypical" anger and madenss of an Italian. However, if he did carry through with his initial plan of murder I may have switched my position that they are in fact portraying Italians to be maniac grudge holders.
ReplyDeleteYou’re opinion didn’t influence mine. I kept in mind that this is an Italian Culture class meant to dissect the representation and perception of ITAM’s. I had to see everything from both sides. That being said, the film does the same thing by dehumanizing and humanizing Beppo. He almost killed the child but he didn’t. This shows that Italians do have the capacity to do these terrible things but they also have a heart. They are human.
ReplyDeleteFatima, I extremely agree with you in every possible way. There are many stereotypes out there which don't clearly depict people for who they really are. Italians just like other people, went through a lot back then, but this shouldn't portray for who they really are. Our professor most definitely didn't influence our view, in fact he showed us where these stereotypes came from and why we should be cautioned by them.
DeleteI believe Beppo’s madness was understandable temporary madness which could be reflected on any human in tough moments like his. At the boarder of him loosing his child, he wanted to do everything to save his loved one. Once all the supportive sources were out of his hands due to external unexpected problems, he was seeking for revenge on those people who put obstacles on his path to save his son. Even in our society today, a person will be willing to go above and beyond to help a loved one in tough moments, which doesn't necessarily make them insane as a human being.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree! I felt that he tried to do all he can to save his son and couldn't. Having a loved one taken away from you when there was a possibility of saving them, to me, would be the hardest thing I'd have to endure.
DeleteWhen watching this film, I sympathized with Beppo. I felt bad for all that he went through. Losing a child, from my mothers personal experience, is one of the hardest things to have to go through. Beppo's son died because of societal oppression and the difficulties of moving up in this caste system imposed on society as a whole. Beppo felt that the people around him failed him in attempting to save his son. When he was going to kill the little girl, I agree he shouldn't have thought about killing an innocent girl but I felt like it came from a sense of guilt, that he was unable to save his son and because Corrigan completely shut him out when it didn't benefit himself. It was a moment of hate and temporary rage. In the end, he knew what he was going to do was wrong, and didn't commit the act. I think that shows Beppo's true feelings and intentions.
ReplyDeleteI felt that when Beppo was first mugged, his anger after seeing the muggers was understandable. He was in a time of desperation, and suffered an unneeded loss. On the other hand, his behavior after being released from jail seemed to cross the line, where he quickly reasoned with murder as revenge. This behavior was less understandable, as he seemed to just be driven by anger. In neither case did I see any relation to his Italian background through his behavior.
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