Reading The Godfather as an upside-down celebration of diversity and anti-establishment sentiments.
You will need to watch my lectures and read my notes to be able to comment adequately.
COMMENT: the establishment kept them out, so they found their own niche in society, followed their own rules, and created their own alternative society.
But is this really a form of protest and political separatism?
To look it another way, they are "in" society but not "of" society.
REPLY: find a good comment to reply to, preferably disagreeing with the point of view.
I don't think that this is a complete form of protest and political separatism but it is a form to an extent.They did not completely identify with society and the community they lived in,creating a new society in the form of the mafia.One can see from the example of the Corleone family that they were also quite determined to remain very Italian without allowing American society to infiltrate their culture.Obviously this was done not only for culture sake but also because the system was not giving them what they needed or somewhat more importantly, what they wanted in society so from there a new society forms.An example of this is when Bonasera goes to the American system for justice for his daughter but they do nothing most likely due to the discrimination against Italians so then he goes to the Godfather.
ReplyDeleteHowever, one can also see that they have not completely cut themselves off from society as in the book it is mentioned a few times about having political allies, and of course corrupt cops that also ally with members of the mafia.In a way though there is a separation I don't believe that it is a complete form of protest or political separatism as they are still using the political forces of America so that their form of law and justice can remain sturdy.
I think this was entirely a form of protest and political separatism. They were almost always within the walls of the Long Beach mall. They followed their own rules. They didn't answer to the law for their crimes. Having political connections was simply necessary for their sub society to exist. They were using their political forces but they were not accepting their political system or answering to it. Its more like they were using some men of the system, not the system. Those men were taking part in their world of crime and not the other way around.
DeleteI also think this was entirely a form of protest and political separatism. The family was consistently breaking the rules and forming new ones to follow on their own. They distanced themselves as much as possible from the current society that they were living in all in protest of the establishment that kicked them out.The family formed their own force of political encounters and formed their own connections with the people that they had, all to protest the current government, distancing themselves purposely from the society.
DeleteI agree with Amanda's response. It's not a full-blown protest but it certainly is a form of it. The Family's role serves as their own society that's alienated from various others. In terms of plot, they're alienated from the other families for their political allies and lack of desire to pursue narcotics trafficking. More importantly, they are alienated from the rest of society by the law. One instance where this is apparent is the case of Bonasera's daughter. Despite Bonasera firmly believing the suspects would get their punishment, the court gave them quite some leeway. Another instance is McCluskey's treatment of Michael. Despite Michael having a clean record and being referred to as a war hero, McCluskey sees him as little more than an Italian thug. The Family's role gives them a higher meaning in the eyes of non-Italians.
ReplyDeleteBased on what was going on around Italian American's rights I can see The Godfather as being a protest to the government. Since the government wasn't treating Italian Americans fairly, some people decided to do things that were clearly anti establishment. Breaking the law on purpose is very clearly anti establishment, although it's not the type of protest that everyone would necessarily go with- it's still a very clear way of protesting the law and the government that enforces it.
ReplyDeleteIn a way the mafia is trying to provide for their community in a way that they aren't getting from the government. Since they know they won't be treated as a part of society their making their own society that's fenced off from the government.
I don't think it was a form of protest because they breaking the rules to be accepted to make policies to accept them. They created their own rules to follow and their own society. They diverted from the American society to form an Italian American society, which I feel like they were pretty content with in the film and book.
DeleteIvy,
DeleteI did not consider your comment. Although the family did break the laws, it might not be a direct protest. You state that they break away from an establishment, which is very true.
Hi Ivy,
DeleteI do not agree with you that the Godfather was a protest to the government because in the book or movie there was no evidence of Italians being treated unfairly but, instead the people of higher politics were either on one side of the Five Families.
According to the "The Godfather", I think this was a form of protest and political separatism. They did not believe in the justice system and did not trust it to work for them so they made their own. The laws of society did not apply to them, but they did have laws, and strict ones too, but their own. They did not mingle with outsiders, but for their own benefits, they did not respect them and they did not trust them. Don Corleone took matters int his own hands from the start. His friends Clemenza and Tessio did so before him. None of them trusted the system. Bonasera who did, was not given justice, so he lost his faith in America and its justice too. Like you have mentioned in the video its like a circle. The system did not work for them so they made their own, they made their own system so the present one wasn't fair to them. They did not follow the rules of society so society rejected them, society rejected them so they did not live by its rules. They are seen as thugs so they act like thugs, they act like thugs so they are seen as thugs. In such circular cases we cannot for sure say which one is the clear cause and which one the obvious effect but what we can say is that they were not "of" society and rejecting its rules was their way of protest.
ReplyDeleteProtest is expressing your disapproval and objection for something (the system). Political separatism is governmental, ethnic and racial seperation from the larger group and providing facilities (in this case unlawful) to minority groups (Sicilians). The Corleones sure did both. The other Five families and Dons did too.
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DeleteWhile I agree that they did not believe in the justice system and didn't trust in it to work for them so they created their own system, I don't agree that it was a complete form of protest and political separatism. In my opinion, though they did use politicians and cops to their advantage to keep their system going,this would be the reason why it isn't a complete form of separatism.For that reason, I don't think that it could ever be a true form of separatism because they would always need to involve goverment officials or cops to keep their business running. They are taking advantage of the system to benefit themselves which isn't a total separation from the system. I believe that they did try to disconnect themselves from society and yes, for the most part that is what they did. It was a protest but there aspects of their system that leads them to still be apart of society.
I do believe that this is a form of protest and political separatism. The Corleone family was living in a particular society but they were not necessarily a part of it. Even when the establishment kicked them out, they found a way to stay in the society while following their own rules and creating their own separate society within the society that they were living in. Creating this alternative society was a form of protest against the establishment that had kicked them out. The Corleone family formed their own identity and society based on what they believed and not based on what someone else told them to do. Throughout the story, the family is separating themselves from others in the society and showing a sense of political separatism. They chose to be a part of the crime world and not comply with the conformities of the rest. The family knew that they wouldn’t be treated fairly because of their ethnicity so they decided to lash out in protest, which caused them to be separated from the society that they were in. As a result of this separation, the family was only “in” a society and not [a part] “of” a society. It was a constant pattern of doing the wrong thing and then being treated wrongly as well, a circular pattern. Every time they ‘lashed out’ it was in protest to the rules that they had been given and forced to follow, which caused them to behave wrongly again because they felt like they were separated.
ReplyDeleteA protest is defined as " a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something." The actions the Corleones took was definitely a way of expressing disapproval to way the government and justice system are run. They wanted to create their own path, their own justice system, and their own economical foundation, in other words their own empire. This idea of political separatism is important to note because the Corleones made it a priority to not let American influence white wash the Italian culture and that played a role in their isolated mentality as well.
ReplyDeleteDue to not being accepted in society, Italian Americans diverted and made their own society and “alternative” society. I don’t think this was a form of protest but is a form of political separatism. They accepted their selves to be able to live. By forming a mafia, they protected themselves from the outside, from those who didn’t accept them. We see instances in the film where people turned to Don Corleone for support and help when the American system failed them. Don Corleone is considered to be the highest level of power throughout the book, until he is shot and his son succeeds him. However, he still needed connection in the American Political world to be able to survive as an alternative society. I see it that they were in society but not of society, until they made themselves recognized, by forming a system of power.
ReplyDelete"A statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection something" defines protest. The Corleone family was living in a certain society and were separated in their own way. Despite Corleone adapting to society, he acted in a way that expressed himself. They expressed disapproval to the justice system and their own empire.
ReplyDeleteThe family chooses to be part of the crime and this is separating their selves.The Corleone's chose to separate, whether they knew it or not. The family knew they would not be treated like others because they were Italian -Americans, so they protested in their own way (crime and violence.)
The family created their own system because they failed to believed in the justice system.
I think that it is a form of protest and political separatism. The caroleone Family was viewed as their own society .They were very high powered and prominent.Don vito also known as the god father did not associate himself with the American system. A perfect example of this was when Bonasera's daughter was brutally beating by her boyfriend instead of going to Don Corleone first,Bonasera went to the police and the court. The system in turn gave justice to the American boys. Disappointed with the results, Bonasera went to The godfather to help him get revenge. Don's response was why did you go to the police first. This shows that Don doesn't really associates himself with the American system. he handles things himself.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the videos, and being an American, who lives in sort of a Chinese like-life style outside of school. I believe that the godfathers aren't protesting, it's just the way they find life easier to work with. Some people don't like to adapt to new styles of living so that’s why I believe they like to keep things simple and stick to their own traditions, life styles, and foods.
ReplyDeleteI believe they are in society but they aren't apart of society because technically they are living in America, so that would make them living in society but on the other hand they seem to stick to their own language, way of dealing with things.